Topic-icon WEC Monthly and Yearly Grand Finals part II

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18 Jan 2017 20:01 #35944 by M4N!4C
M4N!4C replied.

G4Zi wrote: Do we really have to make sure that exactly x monthly winners + y top 10 players are on each table? I doubt that anybody does care. In fact, the upcoming WEC Champion should be able to win any table constellation. I know that this is to give anyone a fair chance. But I think that it is more fair to give everybody the chance to participate at the SF.

G4Zi wrote: I am not saying you need to re roll the lottery. I am saying that we don't need the lottery. The table seeding should be based on availability of the participants.


Availability of the participants can be something that like a house of cards. 5 Minutes before the game starts a storm comes up and your fragile work is gone. But it had to be a storm I can be your your pet or something completely else that makes sure you cant participate at that special event you worked hard for an entire year. I hope you get the point.

The lottery is there to prevent preferential treatment to a specific player by a table admin. I can remember you had quite a rant in ingame chat last year because “always the same players playing at the same table”.

G4Zi wrote: I don't get the point. Apparently everyone of the finalists was able to regularly join WEC games which are always scheduled either 20.00 or 22.00 CET.


That’s not entirely true. As far as I know Emmeler plays mostly 10 pm games. He also played a few 8 pm games last year but only for a short period an I’m sure he hasn’t done that since 2013. Others play both 8 and 10pm games and there are some who mostly play 8 pm games. There was also brief time when WeC Wednesday games were played at 9 pm but that was waaaay before you played WeC. This could be an Option for the Final table.

G4Zi wrote: Where does this deadline come from and what is it useful for? Why don't we focus on the SF first and then decide later when to play the final?

I set that deadline. As already sad in a previous post there were difficulties to find a date for finals during the ddos attacks in 2016, so I had to set a deadline. Sorry if you feel urged to play the finals as quick as possible. But I see no sense playing such an important game during early spring time. You want to do stuff that you cant do during the winter again and that might hinder your availability to play poker too and than you might wish that you already played in February...
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18 Jan 2017 23:51 #35947 by G4Zi
G4Zi replied.

M4N!4C wrote: ..you cant participate at that special event you worked hard for an entire year..

Now we are talking the same language. This should be the most important point for all of our/your decisions regarding the annual final. In my ideal world, the SF tables should only be started if all participants are able to join. Before you say anything: YES I KNOW, this will be impossible. But please consider that the finalists have spent a lot of time for this one moment. Excluding players from the start due to deadlines and availability issues will create frustration.

M4N!4C wrote: I can remember you had quite a rant in ingame chat last year because “always the same players playing at the same table”.


Yes, you are right. It is still something which annoys me from time to time. But we are talking about a completely different situation in this case. It is not about "always the same players at the same table" here. It is about "I don't get the chance to join the SF because my schedule/availability is different than that of the majority" vs. "the tables have to be perfectly balanced and randomized". I hope you see the point. I believe that all finalists would prefer to play at a SF table which is not perfectly fair/balanced/randomized rather than not even getting the chance to participate.


Don't get me wrong: I totally agree that WEC needs rules and deadlines - otherwise it won't work. But we also need to establish a constructive and open discussion mentality. And we also need to review/reconsider our rules from time to time and adjust them if necessary.

br,
g
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19 Jan 2017 14:31 #35951 by GAVIOES
GAVIOES replied.
Thanks to M4N!4C and Emmeler
Your work is very important to our community.
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19 Jan 2017 17:21 #35952 by M4N!4C
M4N!4C replied.

G4Zi wrote: It is about "I don't get the chance to join the SF because my schedule/availability is different than that of the majority" vs. "the tables have to be perfectly balanced and randomized".


You can see how popular 10 pm games are. So an 8 pm SF table could be heavily disadvantaged when Finals are scheduled for 10pm. Because you have to manage 10 instead of 16 people doesn’t mean they are easier to handle.

G4Zi wrote: Excluding players from the start due to deadlines and availability issues will create frustration.


For sure its almost like you are a hurdler trying to qualify for the Olympics but you are sidelined any way because you torn your ACL. It’s not important when it happened before, during or after you’ve qualified is sucks any way.
It might be easier to overcome your frustration when you sat out earlier instead of fighting for an entire year and trough Grand Semi-Finals. As harsh as it sounds, if you can’t, don’t play in a competitive environment like WeC.

G4Zi wrote: I believe that all finalists would prefer to play at a SF table which is not perfectly fair/balanced/randomized rather than not even getting the chance to participate.


To create SF tables based on the time participants usually play is quite accommodating but it can horribly backfire if the appointment for the Finals is inconvenient for one SF table. It would be disastrous if almost an entire SF table can’t participate because of that, right?

For me it makes no sense to handle Semi-finalists like a raw egg when you treat finalists anything but like that.

From organization stand point on one hand I want to provide an enjoyable environment for anyone participating. At the other hand I have to be the reckless bully. Sometimes its enough to nudge other times you have to push quite hard to give you an impulse in the right direction. At the end it’s just business of organizing. Sometimes you amaze people other time you have to disappoint some of them to move forward and finally reach you goal.

I’m sorry for anyone who can’t participate due to unavailability but I can’t take any prisoners if we want to play the Grand Final anytime soon.
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19 Jan 2017 19:41 #35953 by hargreaves
hargreaves replied.
As i already said, it's no problem for me if i can't play the final.. but i want to be honest. After reading this discussion here i still got not the point why we are so inflexibility...

G4Zi made some really good suggestion (in my view) and i can't understand why they got rejected so consistent.

M4N!4C wrote: ...but I can’t take any prisoners if we want to play the Grand Final anytime soon.

Does WE really want to play this final asap? Sorry, but until yet i only read this from your side. For me it would be also fine to play the final in March or April.

Does we need to play on Friday/Sunday?

Why we cant organize the semis first and find an appointment for the qualified finalists afterwards?
Two separated doodle polls for each semi-table... here i would be fine with a deadline e.g. end of february or march.
Afterwards the semis could be organized with a new poll.

Again...are we really this inflexible?
We are a community playing free poker "just for fun" without any obligations... why we need to have this strictly rules and deadlines?


Please don't take it personal M4N!4C. This are just my questions after reading this discussion here and nevertheless i will respect and accept what you will decide finally.


Regards
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19 Jan 2017 23:06 - 19 Jan 2017 23:18 #35958 by M4N!4C
M4N!4C replied.
First of all you can strike out any dates and times previously announced based on the doodle poll because the will be not one but two new ones started soon.

As it seems the burning desire to play with a more accommodating deadline. When I announce the schedule for 2016 I’ve set The date for the Grand Final to 1st quarter 2017. Is it really impossible to manage that at least 6 players per SF table are able to play the Semi-Finals and Grand Final 2016?


Second there are no changes to any SF tables allowed because they were possibility played at different times. There will be also no re rolling of the lottery, so the SF tables stay the same.


Third, the doodle poll… As you’ve noticed there will be two doodle polls this time, one for each table.

You can choose any date from 23rd January up to 28 February (exept for the monthly Final on 3rd and 5th February) to find a date for your SF table.
The times available will be 8 pm CET, 9 pm CET and 10 pm on any day. Additionally I also add 11:45 pm on any Friday and Saturday.

I’ll send you a PM asap which contains the link to the doodle poll of your table.
There are Forum accounts registered for any participant.

So GAVIOES, urbankarl, 827, hotte, boehmi, win me??, G4Zi and dmi3ij will receive the poll for T1.
hargreaves, Lizard1, Victor_mpt, Kleinvieh, Ingolf17, Bab(b), Emmeler and midzer will receive the poll for T2.


Forth, now its your turn. Who wants to be table admin of the GSF tables? Only qualified players, anyone else, sod off!
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